Rig Veda and the Gathas
I am intrigued by the close relation between the Rig-Veda and the Gathas–the language, the locale, the names of the principal characters etc.
It is generally accepted that the language of the Gathas (the older scriptures) known as Avesthanis close to that of the Vedic Sanskrit (please see the notes at the bottom mentioning some similarities as also differences between Sanskrit and Avesthan). Avesthan Gathas were reflected in a hymn kakshivant Ausija – Zarathustra representing the side of the defeated Anuras (Asuras?) and Usijica representing the side of the victor. Hashurva is recognized as Sushravas who entered into a truce with Diwodasa, while Vistapa the patron of Zarathustra is found to be Ishtashwa of Rigveda.There is also references to Devas(Daevas ?) , Asuras(Ahura) , Gandharvas , Anavas , Turvashas(Turanians) etc . In the Gathas the word Asura is pronounced as Ahura because the Indic “S “ becomes Iranian “H”(like Sindhu – Hindhu , Soma – Homa,Saptha – Haptha). Similarly the Indic “V” becomes Iranian “P” (Ashwa – Aspa); Indic “H” becomes Iranian “Z” (Hind – Z(s) Ind) et al. Apparently, both the scriptures speak of the same set of Deities / Characters.
Further, in the Avesta the Asuras (Ahura) are the Gods, and Devas (Daeva) are the demons. It appears the Angirasas were the priests of the Vedic Aryans and the Bhrgus were the priests of the Iranians. In addition, that there was a period of acute hostility between the Vedic Aryans and the Iranians, which left its mark on the myths and traditions of both the peoples.
Now we have two issues here :
1) Where and when did this hostility take place?
2) Many hold the view that it is impossible to understand Indian pre- history unless:
a) is also taken into consideration .The whole of Aryana () should be taken as one unit of Aryan prehistory .
b)The original Gathas of Zarathustra and Rig-Veda is comprehended together because the Sixth and Seventh Mandalas of Rig-Veda represent Devas (Daevas of Zarathustra) and the likely (?) scene of action was the present day Iran: and the Caspian region
Can some learned members on the forum please throw light on the issues 1?
Can some one pl recommend to me book/s on a comprehensive comparative study of the Rig Veda and the Gathas as also of their language…issue2.
[Similarities and differences between Rig Vedic Sanskrit and Avestan .Source : Encyclopedia Britannica.
The long and short varieties of the Indo-European vowels e, o, and a, for example, appear as long and short a: Sanskritmanas- “mind, spirit,” Avestanmanah-, but Greek ménos “ardour, force; Greek pater “father,” Sanskrit pitr-, Avestan and Old Persian pitar-. After stems ending in long or short a, i, or u, an n occurs sometimes before the genitive (possessive) plural ending am (Avestan -am)—e.g., Sanskrit martyanam “of mortals, men” (from martya-); Avestan mašyanam (from mašya-); Old Persian martiyanam.In addition to several other similarities in their grammatical systems, Indo-Aryan and Iranian have vocabulary items in common—e.g., such religious terms as Sanskrit yajña-, Avestan yasna- “sacrifice”; and Sanskrit hotr-,zaotar- “a certain priest”; as well as names of divinities and mythological persons, such as Sanskrit mitra-, Avestan miqra- “Mithra.” Indeed, speakers of both language subgroups used the same word to refer to themselves as a people: Sanskrit arya-, Avestan airya-, Old Persian ariya- “Aryan.” Avestan
The Indo-Aryan and Iranian language subgroups also differ duhitr- “daughter” (cf. Greek thugáter). In Iranian, however, the sound is lost in this position; e.g., Avestan dugdar-, dudar-. Similarly, the word for “deep” is Sanskrit gabhira- (with i for i), but Avestan jafra-. Iranian also lost the accompanying aspiration (a puff of breath, written as h) that is retained in certain Indo-Aryan consonants; e.g., Sanskrit dha “set, make,” bhr, “bear,” gharma- “warm,” but Avestan and Old Persian da, bar, and Avestan garma-. Further, Iranian changed stops such as p before consonants and r and v to spirants such as f: Sanskrit pra “forth,” Avestan fra; Old Persian fra; Sanskrit putra- “son,” Avestan puqra-, Old Persian pusa- (s represents a sound that is also transliterated as ç). In addition, h replaced s in Iranian except before non-nasal stops (produced by releasing the breath through the mouth) and after i, u, r, k; e.g., Avestan hapta- “seven,” Sanskrit sapta-; Avestan haurva- “every, all, whole,” Sanskrit sarva-. Iranian also has both xš and š sounds, resulting from different Indo-European k sounds followed by s-like sounds, but Indo-Aryan has only ks; e.g., Avestan xšayeiti “has power, is capable,” šaeiti “dwells,” but Sanskrit ksayati, kseti. Iranian was also relatively conservative in retaining diphthongs that were changed to simple vowels in Indo-Aryan.Iranian differs from Indo-Aryan in grammatical features as well. The dative singular of -a-stems ends in -ai in Iranian; e.g., Avestan mašyai, Old Persian cartanaiy “to do” (an original dative singular form functioning as infinitive of the verb). In Sanskrit the ending is extended with a—martyay-a. Avestan also retains the archaic pronoun forms yuš, yuzm “you” (nominative plural); in Indo-Aryan the -s- was replaced by y (yuyam) on the model of the 1st person plural—vayam “we” (Avestan vaem, Old Persian vayam). Finally, Iranian has a 3rd person pronoun di (accusative dim) that has no counterpart in Indo-Aryan but has one in Baltic.
December 22, 2018 at 7:55 pm
Why is it so difficult to identify soma, the god of all gods, the honey out of which all gods had come? Endlessly, again and again it is repeated rigveda 8,48,3. Practically never 8.48.1, which does not seem to exist in the RV, where this golden coloured god and his companions had originated from honey. See rigvedischersoma.de
December 23, 2018 at 2:11 am
Dear Hr. Lehmann
Thank you for the visit and for for the comment.
I visited your site; a very scholarly discussion on various aspects of sweetness and the honey bees. It is truly great.
1. Regarding the Rigveda and the Gathas , I had extended that discussion into the next stage.
Kindly check the following link:
2. As regards Soma, he indeed is an important god in the Vedic lore. All of the 114 hymns of the ninth book of the Rig Veda, known as the Soma Mandala, are addressed to Soma Pavamana (purified Soma). The hymns are in celebration of Soma represented as the most powerful god, healer of diseases, bestower of riches, and lord of all other gods. Soma is referred to in the Rig-Veda as the soul of the Yajna (atmayajnasya).
Yet, Soma is usually talked about in association with Agni. They are regarded as parterns in the evolution and sustainance of life in the Universe.
3. Kindly read my article Agni And Soma Interplay: Life Thrives On Life
Soma is not as explicit as Agni. Soma mixes freely with water and is responsible for sweetness (madhurya) in food. And, as food it nourishes all forms of life. It enters the herbs and supports beings with long and healthy life. All the food, all the offering, all fuel, the cold, the moist, the moon, the sperm, and the wine etc in the universe are Soma.
4. Kindly let me know further.
Thanks again for the visit and the comment
April 23, 2020 at 10:16 am
Isn’t it obvious — both Vedas and Gathas have their origin in sources beyond Iran. There was likely a split in the belief system and branched off to India from Iran, literally the land of Aryans.
April 23, 2020 at 12:02 pm
Yes; I agree
I had written in greater detail in another post
Please check the following link; and, let me know
April 23, 2020 at 12:05 pm
Yes ; I agree
I had written in greater detail about this subject, in another post
Please check the following link; and, let me know
April 24, 2020 at 5:45 am
Please also see Rig veda and Gathas – revisited